Interview with ROCKY 184 (WC 188)

Partial Transcript: Steven Payne: Welcome to the Bronx Aerosol Arts Documentary Project. My name is Steven Payne, librarian and archivist at The Bronx County Historical Society. Today is May 24, 2022. Kurt, do you want to introduce yourself?
Kurt Boone: Yeah I'm Kurt Boone and I've been writing about urban culture for about 40 years.
SP: Great, thank you Kurt. And we're here today, extremely thrilled to be here today with Rocky 184 a legendary graff writer who got her start really in the late 60s was there pretty much from the start...

Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Dr. Steven Payne, librarian and archivist at The Bronx County Historical Society, and Kurt Boone, veteran documentarian of urban culture for 40 years, introduce Rocky 184, one of the original graffiti writers during the late 1960s and early 1970s from the famous Writers Corner 188 in Washington Heights.

Subjects: Graffiti; Rocky 184 (Graffiti artist); Washington Heights (New York, N.Y.)

Partial Transcript: SP: Why don't you start off by telling us a little about your family's history and background...
ROCKY 184: Both my parents were born in New York. My mother is of Hispanic descent, her family was from the Dominican Republic, my father was of French descent... I grew up in Infamous Writer's Corner... I grew up first of all with SNAKE, STITCH was my partner, COCO 144, SPANKY 132, you know further down but in the Heights SJK, MIKE 171, K, JUNIOR

Segment Synopsis: Both of ROCKY's parents were born in New York. Her mother Minerva was from the Dominican Republic while her father Charlie was from France. Her father's family migrated from Germany to France and ROCKY was born in the infamous writers corner. ROCKY's father worked in the navy, post office, and had an interior painting business for restaurants. Meanwhile, ROCKY's mother worked as a waitress at the Blue Fountain, a house wife, and at the Isabella nursing home. ROCKY mentions the graffiti writers she was involved with as well as her siblings her parents had from previous marriages. Out of the two, ROCKY was closest to her father, who would often times go view the graffiti writers in awe. Due to her "tomboy" nature, ROCKY had a complicated relationship with her mother. However, this somewhat changed when ROCKY met her "first," Stitch 1, a graffiti writer.

Keywords: Family; Hispanic studies: culture and ideas; Washington Heights (New York, N.Y.); Writers Corner

Subjects: Coco 144 (Graffiti artist); SNAKE (Graffiti artist); Spanky 132 (Graffiti artist); Stitch (Graffiti artist); Washington Heights (New York, N.Y.)

Partial Transcript: SP: What are some things you remember eating while growing up in your household? And who cooked your Mom, you Dad, both of them?
ROCKY 184: My mom did all the cooking, but when my mother decided to go back to work my father would cook on the weekends. When my mother cooked, it wasn't, the Spanish cuisine. That was far and in between. She would make a pernil, rice and beans, or maduros, but it was American food. She was an amazing cook. She could bake, and that's where I took an interest in baking.

Segment Synopsis: Growing up, ROCKY's mother did the cooking until she went back to work, during that time Charlie (her father) would cook on the weekends. Minerva would mostly cook "American" food more than Caribbean food but she was an amazing cook and taught ROCKY how to bake, a passion of hers. During the weekends, Charlie cooked foods such as roasted chicken and omelettes. When it came to musical influence, ROCKY grew up with Jazz, Frank Sinatra, and the Beatles on her father's side. ROCKY gives some insight to the cultural background of Washington Heights which was mostly comprised of Greek and Irish families at the time she grew up. In fact, ROCKY learned how to speak Greek before she learned how to speak Spanish. However, this changed when an influx of Cubans came to the neighborhood, followed by an influx of Dominicans. Growing up, ROCKY attended Catholic school such as St. Elizabeth, which ROCKY did not like because of the dresses and because of the people who went there. She dreaded going to church and when her family gave her money for donations she would spend it on candy. Out of all the subjects, ROCKY liked science and agriculture but was not good at math due to her dyscalculia—dyslexia with numbers.

Keywords: Food; Jazz; Latin-American Cuisine; Music; migration

Subjects: Catholic Church--Education; Dyslexia; Ethnicity; Family; Food; Music; School; Washington Heights (New York, N.Y.)

Partial Transcript: KB: So what was it like in Washington Heights? Was it like in the 60s and 70s with gangs developing, were there gangs out there? What was the environment like?
Rocky 184: When the flavor of the neighborhood started changing, and we started getting all the Dominicans and everything we started getting gangs. We had the Savage Skulls. I believe that's what STITCH was involved with. There was the all-girls gang The Hell of Five Sisters which I was in.

Segment Synopsis: With the influx of Cubans and Dominicans, Washington Heights started to experience the introduction of gangs such as the Hell of Five Sisters which ROCKY was in. The Hell of Five Sisters wore sweatshirts and it was Charlie who gave ROCKY her nickname, ROCKY. ROCKY graduated high school with good grades and excelled at typing which she did not like. After graduating, she landed a job with Hurst Publications which she worked at for a couple of years.

Keywords: Hell of Five Sisters; Saint Anthony's Commercial School; Savage Skulls

Subjects: Female gangs; Gangs; Gangs--New York (State); Hispanic American gangs; ibm selectric typewriter

Partial Transcript: Rocky 184: Everyone says they came from the best block. I know I came from the best block. I grew up with the best...
KB: Give us a typical week during that time...
Rocky 184: Remember it wasn't the luxury of now, there wasn't the fanciness. It was tagging and that was it. I have a few of them on my Instagram page.
KB: it was just that simple... Did anybody call themselves by their name, did you call SNAKE by SNAKE or did you call him Eddy?
Rocky 184: No I always called him Snake.

Segment Synopsis: This segment gives a 'highlight reel' of ROCKY's tagging career, hanging out on 188th Street "Writer's Corner." She takes a journey going from small tags inside trains and on the platforms to larger efforts including a large roller tag on an apartment building wall, the opportunity to write which was pointed out by her father. This ultimately continues as Rocky's career dies down just as the United Graffiti Artists were spinning up with many of the people she was involved with.

Keywords: Bronx; riverdale; women

Subjects: Graffiti; Subculture; Subway; TAKI 183 (Graffiti artist); United Graffiti Artists; Vandalism

Partial Transcript: Rocky: So when I got married my father got us a place up in Riverdale, because that was his route in the Post Office.
KB: Riverdale In the Bronx?
Rocky: Yes that's how I got to the Bronx
KB: Talk about the Bronx then!

Segment Synopsis: This segment details some of Rocky's life after leaving graffiti, including parenting and living in Riverdale while missing Washington Heights. It moves then her ultimate return to the scene in the 2010s with the Wall Writers: Graffiti in its Innocence documentary interviews. She also details rekindling friendships with other writers including BONDI and KEON. Social media took this to a new level and connected ROCKY to the massive scene which had developed around graffiti during her absence.

Keywords: Art Media; Gastman, Roger

Subjects: CAT 87 (Graffiti artist); Riverdale (New York, N.Y.); Wall Writers (movie)

Partial Transcript: I did Writer's Corner in a Marker! Because I think everybody hit it with a marker. Well maybe it was around I just woke up to it. So it's really marker and then the paint came later.
SP: So you were really already on your way out by the time paint came in
Yeah, yeah.
SP: Did you have a favorite brand or color of marker that you used?
Black, always black.

Segment Synopsis: This segment goes a little into the technique that was being used by ROCKY and those around her. She says marker was the preferred instrument over the spray can while she was active, with the paint primarily coming later. She was particularly impressed with the character tag of Stay High 149, but notes that he was the only one really experimenting with characters at that time. It continues with some interesting details about which writers were associating with who and who stayed in graffiti and who left.

Keywords: Beyond the Streets; Felt marker drawing; Paint materials

Subjects: Coco 144 (Graffiti artist); Graffiti artists; SJK (Graffiti artist); Stay High 149 (Graffiti artist), 1950-2012; Stitch-1 (Graffiti artist)

Partial Transcript: R: My daughter was born in the elevator of the hospital! So that's getting close.
SP: Almost made it huh?
R: She was delivered in the elevator. Her father delivered her. I was a very small frame and I was very active. I bike ride I roller skate, you know, so, when women say 24 hours of labor I had that one pain that one baby and that was it. Maybe if I had a little more pain there wouldn't have been four!

Segment Synopsis: This segment goes into detail about ROCKY's life since retreating from graffiti, including having her four kids, seeing the South Bronx deteriorate due to the fires, and becoming a corporate travel agent, which enabled her to travel to much of the world. We also learn how resorts have offered ROCKY and other traveling "old timer" graffiti writers walls to tag, which were filled up with names from all over the world.

Keywords: Archipelagoes--Caribbean Area; Arts, Caribbean; Dominican Americans; Dominican Republic; Paradise Garage (Discotheque); Style; Washington Heights (New York, N.Y.)

Subjects: Bronx; Feminism and art; Parenting; Spray painting; Travel

Partial Transcript: SP: Were you accepted completely? Was there any nonsense you'd get from any boys?
ROCKY 184: No, No. And I felt like a guy. You know I know I was a girl, but I wasn't that girl. I wasn't that girly girl. You could do it I could do it. I wasn't a bad person but I just, you know, wasn't that girly girl. I was Charlie's son, like my mother would say!
SP: And were there any girly-girls who were into graff at the time who you remember?
KB: There was CHARMIN 65, did you know her?
ROCKY: I met her years ago. I don't remember her being girly!

Segment Synopsis: This segment details the legacy of graffiti as an art movement as ROCKY has come to see it. She speaks about how the Masterpiece Era passed her by, completely unaware of movies like Style Wars or Wild Style which did a great deal to mythologize that era of graffiti. This made her particularly surprised at how big a movement (and an industry) graffiti had become, especially in Europe where she notes it has been easier and more lucrative to sell graffiti-based works. She also speaks about noticing the Clean Car Program beginning which took the graffiti off the trains, and expressed sadness about that in particular, which took a bit of wonder and beauty out of the city in her eyes. She expresses hope about the large-scale murals and legal walls organized by open-air galleries such as the Bushwick Collective, noting that when effort is put into a beautiful wall, it doesn't get tagged over. She graffiti as being a major beautifying force in New York at the time, that graffiti is a win-win for the taggers and the citizens.

Keywords: Bushwick Collective (Art Gallery); Charmin 65 (Graffiti artist); Clean Car Program; Trans (Graffiti artist)

Subjects: European Graffiti; Feminism and art; Graffiti; Racism; Urban beautification; Vandalism